James Arthur Ray Fraud Suspected in Spiritual Warrior Deaths (PHOTOS)

James Arthur Ray - President and CEO James Ray International

On October 8, 2009, self help expert James Arthur Ray led 64 people into a sweat lodge dome at a new age “Spiritual Warrior” seminar and over the course of several hours they were part of a spiritual and physical cleansing that involved hot rocks and steam to create a sauna-like experience.  They each paid $9,000 for their stay and participation in the program.

Too many people within the dome structure at one time is believed to have resulted in the death of two and the hospitalization of 19 others, who were treated for dehydration, respiratory arrest, elevated body temperature, kidney failure and burns.  The dead were identified as James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee, Wisconsin and Kirby Brown, 38, a female from Westtown, New York.

A third victim, Liz Neuman, 49, of Prior Lake, Minnesota died on Saturday in Flagstaff, nine days after suffering multiple organ failure.  Attorney Louis Diesel said that the family plans to take legal action against James Arthur Ray in the death of an extremely athletic woman who was in excellent health before attending the seminar.  See photos and details here.

Carbon-monoxide has been ruled out as a cause of death.    The tarps and makeshift canvas coverings over the structure are being analyzed to determine whether they contained any harmful materials that may have contributed to the deaths and illnesses.  The group had been fasting for 36 hours prior to eating a buffet breakfast Thursday morning.

The large group entered the sweat lodge at 3:00 p.m. that afternoon and began exhibiting medical distress several hours later, when help was summoned to the remote site.  Patients were transported to Verde Valley Medical Center and Flagstaff Medical Center.

The use of sweat lodges is a part of the culture of several Native American tribes.  The seminar was led by Ray at The Angel Valley Retreat Center in Yavapai County near Sedona.  The lodge, on 70 secluded acres, was founded by Michael Hamilton and Amayra Hamilton in 2002.  Their website describes it as “a place to relax and heal.”

Police executed a search warrant on Friday night looking for evidence of criminal activity.   They believe they may have sufficient evidence to consider criminal prosecution.  James Ray was questioned initially about similar events held at other venues, but authorities found him to be less than cooperative.  They plan to interview him again in the ongoing investigation.

Autopsies were performed on the two victims.  Toxicology reports will not be available for several weeks, according to the coroner’s office.

James Ray ‘tweeted’ the following on his Twitter page Friday night: “I’m shocked and saddened by the tragedy occurring in Sedona.  My deep heartfelt condolences to family and friends of those who lost their lives.”

He is the President and CEO of James Ray International of Carlsbad, California.  The company website indicates that Ray presents seminars to teach individuals how to create wealth in all areas of their lives — financially, mentally, physically and spiritually.  He has appeared on Oprah, Larry King Live, and The Today Show. Ray is also the author of Harmonic Wealth, a New York Times bestseller.

View more photos below.

45 Responses to “James Arthur Ray Fraud Suspected in Spiritual Warrior Deaths (PHOTOS)”

  1. The Secret is FOS. The secret to life isn’t about wealth, if it was, then all the masters of the ages would have said quite clearly, ‘be wealthy – what else matters?’ These are the same masters most of these spiritual types claim to emulate, yet the masters all pretty much come down clearly that the keys to life are to overcome fear and be loving. What does wealth have to do with that? People marketing The Secret and it’s spinoffs like this Ray fellow are playing on fears of not being something, not being wealthy. They are the opposites of the spiritual masters these idiots paying $9K for a seminar want to be like.

  2. the local sheriff said that james ray would not answer any questions and basically got on a plane and left.
    sounds to me that although he wasn’t talking to investigators, he probably did talk with his attorney who advised him to get out of town. pretty crappy thing to do when two are dead and several others still in the hospital. what kind of person would just take off when people have died?

  3. The Secret is out–James Arthur Ray is a con man, fraud and now murderer. I hope he goes to prison, where he can use his wealth building techniques to score cigarettes and lingerie for his prison husband. This guy is a total loser to run away from the crime scene. Let’s hope the local authorities have the guts to extradite him.

  4. Graham,

    Your comments make me laugh. Thank you for the reminder of how twisted humanity is. I hope JAR needs his bed sheets to sop up the blood from his prison honeymoon…LOL

  5. I think we should not be so quick to judge. There are definetely some outpoints which I am sure will be looked into. As far as the media goes, well hopefully we do not believe every single thing they say. I wasn’t there so I don’t really know what happened. I don’t think he should of left the scene if he did. The question is where did h leave to? I believe if he did something wrong it will be found out. It is possible his workers or the people who owned the place did something incorrect in setting the sweat lodge up. So there are many ifs here and I think we should see what turns up before we start sayin someone is a scum bag. That just isn’t fair. I don’t personally know James Ray so I can’t say anything about him. Are we all so perfect?

  6. JAR is a true manipulator along the lines of the Kool Aid Jones… It’s all about selling the product and milking people out of thousands of dollars on the hope of success dream that is so popular. He is a murderer and left the scene of his crime and should be brought back to Sedona to face trial!

  7. I am a Native American Indian and pipe carrier. I follow the teachings of the sweat lodge. The sweat lodge is something that should not be played around with and used to make money. Any true sweat lodge keeper knows that it is against spiritual practices to charge money for someone to enter a lodge for healing purposes. Once again our spiritual ways have been sabotaged and placed in a bad light by people who have not earned the right to run a sweat lodge! I have been in hundreds of sweat ceremonies and never have I seen anyone come lose to the verge of death! This is what happens when you play around with things that you have very little knowledge about! I feel empathy for the families that lost their loved ones in this unfortunate event. Ahow!

  8. What’s the matter with my post? Why didn’t you post it? Is it because I speak the truth? As you receive this message your website slong with my post are being emailed around the country to all my friends ( and believe me I have a lot) and I encouraged them to forward it to everyone they know. Your site is “BIASED!”

  9. Cheryl,

    Do a little research. That is not how a sweat lodge is done. That was not a sweat lodge. Additionally, there was a problem with one in 2005. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to gather up the clear safety issues that would have prevented this. I’ve done Native sweats and the medicine elder watched out for us white folks. There was only kindness and that lovely native humor, prayer, not pressure or illness or death. And there was no charge….let alone $10,000.00. I knew The Secret was a scam from the get go. All it was..was the power of positive thinking.

  10. 63 people @ $9,000 = $567,000. I think that should cover building a safe sweat lodge. I had a run-in with Ray after a seminar several years ago. This guy was on an ego / God trip back then. His taking off without cooperating does’t surprise me at all!

  11. Well , sorry Cheryl but for me it’s quite enought to say this James Ray is a scum bag. I saw The Secret and at first i found this interesting, but fortunatly i realised that it was total crap. You’re telling people that they just have to put a false one million check they will see every morning to earn one million dollar. They say it’s all the power of the mind. Well ‘m sorry but the mind is not enought. See what happened in Arizona. It totally contradicts his teaching. According tohis teaching , then it happened because of him, because in his mind he created the reality. Those guys just makes money from all the people who try to find the answers but who are lost. The secret is a real piece of shit. Now who is going to take responsability for the tragedy? Certainly not Mr. James Ray! But there are people responsible and this scum bag has to take at least some responsability. Imean his followers trusted him, did anything he asked an now 2 of them didn’t find the answers they were looking for, instead 2 are dead.

  12. Cheryl,
    wether it was his mistake or the mistake of his co-workers, it still reflects on him because he was incharage of the place and it was his duty to make sure there were no health issues would arise from the sweat lodges. This has nothing to do with perfection, all that was required was that the sweat lodges followed the basic heath guidelines. What was he thinking putting over 60 people in sweat lodges? That to me seems like an obvious issue in the heath guidelines. How hard was it to make 2 lodges for the people who paid $9,000 to participate in the spiritual activity. Seems like he was trying to rip-off people as he easily made over $550,000 for this “Spiritual” event.

  13. The Native Americans take their sweat lodge ceremonys very seriously. I have attended one that was lead by an authentic leader from their tribe. The skill of guiding those in the lodge is taught by the elders ,and the utmost attention is given to each individuals well being, including getting out or drinking water if needed. This is a sacred ceremony in their culture,not to be imitated or used for monetary gain.
    This seems like bad karma. Many generations of Native Americans have respected these traditions with no casualties.

  14. I like Joe White Eagle’s response, he sounds like he has a brain!!!! Go Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. All- This is not an indictment on the Secret. We are talking about an entrepreneur who was featured in the movie the Secret. One entrepreneur. There were 25 featured in the Secret. Furthermore, he is a man. He never said he was a deity. I feel this incident has brought about a very hostile environment for believers of the law of attraction. Please be careful to focus your comments on the crime of negligence and not on the belief system. At least he was trying to get people to live their lives in a positive way.

  16. All- to speak badly about new age practices for this incident is irresponsible. The other 24 teachers featured in the Secret to not advocate the use of sweat houses. It’s the equivalent of condemning Catholicism for the actions of a few priests or Islam because of terrorism. Read the Bible, the Koran, or any of the other 50 plus books on new age philosophy and you will see they are only in favor of peace and world harmony.

  17. As of Sunday, October 18, a third person has now died and the perpetrator, James Ray, is still not in custody.

  18. How stupid are these people with 9k to give it to con man Ray

  19. Just the fact that he left the same day and did not personally follow-up on those admitted to the hospital and those who died speaks clearly as to his credibility, I live in the area and have a son who was a firefighter at the scene, first responder. This is a terrible lack of judgement on Mr. Ray’s part. People here are shocked by his lack of compassion and responsibility.

  20. Seems like someone turn the oven dial bottom to high. I feel very sorry for everyone in the sweat lodge and for James Ray. I don’t think these was on purpose. But unfortunately the lawyers are having a picnic.

  21. First off, he should not mess around with traditions of the American Indian to scam un suspecting people, and second, why has he not been brought to justice yet?

  22. Brett I could tell you some things that I know about a few of the other people in that Movie the Secret!! There are a few in there who have no problem taking the last saved income of families and then leaving them with Nothing!!! Just took the money and ran. That is how they got started. Wow, not sure how they can sleep at night.

    And a Man whose Soul cry’s out for its own healing, has no business trying to heal himself by telling other he can heal them!!
    I met this man Once!! It only took one hand shake to completely understand how much pain this man is in denial about!!

    If anything, he proved the Law of Attraction works!!! he talked about death to these people, convinced them something had to Die. They believed it And so they did.

    And the LOA has absolutely Not a thing to do with money anyway!!! It is a sacred principle that works in different ways in each persons life, depending on who they are.

    I also have learned much from my Mothers Heritage. And I honor my ancestors. And those who run the Lodge with respect and honor of all life and listen to Creator and the Ancestors to aid others in healing. Healing is the key word here!!! Not creating trauma so someone can change their life. That is only causing for problems down the road.

    I know men like Mr. Ray. They are so caught up in their own pain, they dont’ want anyone else to suffer. So they think if everyone follows their ideals they will have a happy life!! But that is how all great Cults got started. AS soon as i hear someone say you have to stay with like minded people, I get worried.

    We are in a time of Unification, not segregation!!! geesh!!

  23. I agree in part with Brett’s post:

    To jump on a band wagon against The New Age Movement or belief system due to this incident may not be the best response. However the New Age Movement repeatedly is cited with radical leaders that rise to fame and power quickly and then flame out due to huge scandals. Not to say that any other religion on the face of this planet is without scandal, it just seems that the New Age movement must deceive and manipulate its followers in order to maintain control. And in recent years more and more false teachings and false leaders rise and fall, creating a very un-credible view of this movement or belief system.

    Mr Ray is the epitome of another Radical and Extremist New Age Leader, his belief system and values are a twisted and distorted blend of every major religious or moral system known to man. He allows for just enough truth to be included to get people to believe him. He further manipulates his followers into handing over their own wealth and life savings to participate in these crazy Wilderness Retreats that promote a complete lack of health and safety of each of the participants. As noted in the crazy message that was sent to each of the participants in the Spiritual Warrior Retreat:

    “Keep in mind that we will be working diligently to make this event memorable. For this reason, it is important that we do not disclose any further information regarding the event schedule or planned activities. However, we will tell you that it is going to be an exciting, unforgettable and transformational week!”

    This along with the RELEASE FORM that was required to be signed, witnessed, and notarized basically has come out from several participants that it was almost peer pressure or coercion to get participants to sign the form.

    Again though I agree with Brett that it is not responsible to criticize the New Age Movement for this tragic event, it is THIS VERY EVENT and the circumstances surrounding the unnecessary deaths of 3 people that prove the lack of logic, reason, truth, and credibility behind the entire New Age Movement and those that lead and teach its belief systems.

    Mr James Arthur Ray’s days of deceit and manipulation, along with complete theft of others wealth is quickly drawing to a close. Just like all the other nut jobs before him that have lied and manipulated people, his rise to fame, wealth and power is going to end in his own demise and complete embarrassment. His demise and fall is a testament to the false teachings of the New Age Movement and many other belief systems that he promoted.

    False Prophets and those that deceive and manipulate people and play on their emotions, spirituality, etc… are sure to face the consequences for their actions, just like Mr Ray will be shortly.

    Prayers and empathy for the families that lost loved ones in this tragic event: God bless you all in your grieving. Rest assured that God has seen the evil that has come from this event and those responsible, and he will bring justice to pass.

    In loving Memory of:
    James Shore
    Kirby Brown
    Lizbeth Neuman

    Three deaths that took good people from their families and this earth before their time.

    We will not forget!

  24. Why isn’t he under arrest for the death of 3 people?????? Why is he still roaming around taking peoples money ?
    why is he allowed to practice?
    What is he qualified in anyway???…
    Is it because he is white?…
    Is he putting money in the local authorities pockets to avoid prosecution?
    He must be accountable for the 3 lives that died “in his hands”

  25. only people with huge sico and individual problems can pay 9,000.00 dollars for this shit!!!!

  26. Here’s the latest on the homicide, with Ray playing God and discouraging participants from leaving or getting a little fresh air. I copied and pasted a section of the article:

    Texas resident Beverley Bunn is the first participant in the tragic incident to speak out publicly about the events that led up to the deaths. The 43-year-old told the AP in a series of interviews this week that by the time the sweat lodge ceremony began, the participants had undergone days of physically and mentally strenuous events that included fasting. In one game, guru James Arthur Ray even played God.

    Within an hour of entering the sweat lodge on the evening of Oct. 8, people began vomiting, gasping for air and collapsing. Yet Bunn says Ray continually urged everyone to stay inside. The ceremony was broken up into 15-minute “rounds,” with the entrance flap to the lodge opened briefly and more heated rocks brought inside between sessions.

    “I can’t get her to move. I can’t get her to wake up,” Bunn recalls hearing from two sides of the 415-square-foot sweat lodge. Ray’s response: “Leave her alone, she’ll be dealt with in the next round.”

  27. If there are enough of those participants in this incident and past incidents to stop revering and fearing him, and be willing to testify against him, he would be convicted.

    Ray is just like any of those cult leaders in the past, wearing the New Age sheep clothing.

    It’s not about what they say they are, it’s about the consequences of their actions. That goes for every leader, preacher, etc, etc.

    I know someone who went to a new ager and author Caroline Myss seminar and was extremely disappointed. She said about Myss, “She didn’t seem to care about people and what they went through, and only cared about money.”

    The ego knows no bounds.

  28. On James Ray’s web site he appears in several videos promoting Oct. 16-17 gatherings that have obviously came and went. But if you listen to what he says you can hear the bs loud and clear. “Being around successful people will make you successful…”
    “You can’t afford to miss this opportunity…” “Somebody is going to make money so it might as well be you..” Yeah, let’s forget all the poor, sick and downtrodden. They’re losers who obviously don’t hang with expensive advice givers and the Hollywood crowd. Forget humanity and mainly, make sure YOU GET YOURS.

  29. If you look at James Ray’s web site video, he is still promoting a Oct. 16-17 event that has obviously came and went. He is selling his event by saying that you can “achieve success by being around successful people” and “someone has to succeed, so it might as well be you.” He promotes speakers that “you cannot afford to miss.” If you got the bucks to pay me for this “success” event then you might make it big. Forget everyone else and make sure YOU GET YOURS.

  30. I agree with White Eagle and Sage Lee, as a Native America myself this type of ceramony is nothing to play with nor is t for everyone reguardless of how much money one may have. As for James A Ray I’m sure the spirits have warned you before now will you listen?
    Remember if it sounds to good to be true ITS NOT!

  31. I met James Ray 25 years ago at Golds Gym in KC MO. He always had a huge ego & acted like he was smarter & better than everyone. He would actually walk with his head tilted up, looking down at you while he was talking. My husband & I used to laugh everytime we saw him. He was very cocky. I did a few business deals with him. This is the message that he had on his answering machine ” Hi, this is James. I’m not here right now because I’m probably out doing something a whole lot more important than talking to you” …. I just watched “The Secret” a few months ago & was very surprised to see James, with the title financial motivational speaker. I live in Arizona now, & was shocked when I saw the sweat lodge tragedy. I can’t believe he left & went on to his scheduled lectures. I’m very sad for the families of the victims of this scam.

  32. One thing that’s worth noting: Financial transactions of $10,000 or more are reported to the IRS by banks where they take place. One common red flag of suspicious business practices is a frequent occurrence of payments just under that amount to avoid mandatory IRS reporting. It’s not illegal in and of itself, but it does tend to smell very fishy …

  33. Whenever you go to any spiritual leader, teacher, or healer, focus on if they demonstrate signs of compassion for your health and well-being. If they do not, NOTHING they say, do, know, or believe, is worth staying around for. GET OUT quick.

    Anyone who does not care that you suffer, or creates your suffering, is a charlatan.

    Also, spiritual knowledge should be free, or just a donation should be enough. The greater the amount they charge, the greater attachment to the material world they have and how spiritual is that?!

    I agree that his charge of $9k + is very suspicious being right below the IRS reporting amount.

    Regardless, no one needs a leader to tell you how to think and feel. Guidance, perhaps, but God is available to all. And it’s free!

  34. I live in Sedona and have a great deal of respect for Native American culture and tradition but because of the greed of California self help guru James Arthur Ray one of those traditions is in danger – the sweat lodge
    . A sweat lodge is a temporary structure where one goes to purify one’s self before a hunt, a battle or a religious ceremony. Usually the most that will use a sweat lodge is 12 people and generally the figure is lower. Ray, because of his greed and neglect, crammed 60 plus people into a 400 square foot sweat lodge and now three of those people are dead. Ray is NOT Native American and is NOT qualified to conduct sweat lodge ceremonies. Now his spokesperson says he is being persecuted by the Yavapai Sheriff because he is up for re-election. Ray is irresponsible and a cult leader, just read what his supporters have to say about him. When will his followers start wearing purple sneakers and drinking Kool-Aid? He needs to be stopped by the authorities!

    To Brett and Josh.: No one is deriding the New Age movement so I don’t know what rock you’re both living under to make such outrageous statements, unless you have a greed driven agenda just like Ray. What people are deriding is Ray’s irresponsibility and his failure to take responsibility for his actions. If you’re reading into these posts that people are speaking against your belief systems then you’re as sick, if not worse, than Ray.

    To Cheryl; Obviously you think you’re perfect or you would not be condoning murder. Are you that sacrosanct to think this man deserves compassion and understanding when he violated the spiritual beliefs of an entire race of people for his own greed and that resulted in the deaths of three people? Get over your delusions.

  35. I am an Englishman who was introduced to Native ways many years ago and have been in many sweat lodges. We learn humility, kindness and understanding following these ways; the cost? Nothing except donations of firewood, grandfathers, (stones) and so forth. James Arthur Ray is the antithesis of these teachings and these values. Unfortunately people had to die for maybe the lessons to be learnt.

    JAR is in a jam now, I hope he is held accountable! Also, the people who attended his seminar could begin to learn the “secret” by going to native sweat lodge ceremonies and sharing the humbleness.

  36. I was so sorry to hear about this tragedy. I am a believer in the Law of Attraction. I have seen great things happen when I apply it to my life. I think that James, in no way, intended something like this to happen.
    I agree, that he should have been more careful with doing a sweat lodge. Especially with the amount of people that were in the lodge at one time. Way too many things can go wrong when people are exposed to so much heat.

    I feel so sorry for the families of the people that died. I also feel that each person needs to make clear choices in their lives. Don’t forget they chose to do the sweat lodge.
    I have put myself in harms way in the past and didn’t realize it until years later. I am lucky I survived!
    I don’t really know what or how to feel….I know this though, I don’t believe James meant any intentional harm. I think that people need to think more before they get involved with these types of things.

  37. Jimmy Ray was completely full of himself, and exhibited an ego, insatiable for power over people.
    His followers gave him their will.
    Readers of The Secret, of Law of Attraction, believe they can think their way to success…which is about as powerful as wishing, and is always followed by “if.”. Believing is dogma at it’s core. It’s been said, that the path to Hell is paved by good intention.

  38. If only we could get more sheep to follow Oprah and Ray into the death lodges.

    Go new age! Put on the black Nikes, castrate yourself and wait for a comet and join the Oprah book club.

  39. I have to say this whole incident is horrible. I have been to several sweat lodge ceremony and like many have said none of the people there were on the verge of dying! 1) The people were not hydrated…that right there is suicide! 2) Not eating before a lodge ceremony is normal and so might someone getting sick. 3) I have never been to a lodge that lasted more than an hour and a half. They were saying it lasted several hours. To me this just gives the alternative healing community a bad name because it makes those who practice these ceremony’s look like raving lunatics! I mean who would pay $9,000 dollars to a guy for ceremony? And any one that would looks crazy. This also says to me that ceremony has no business being in the hands of those who have not been properly trained or earned the right to practice them. I think that Native American Communities should that do practice the ceremony should start a coalition and they should have the right to decide who can and cannot conduct a ceremony. Of course then you start getting into politics and ego. uggg….James Ray just because you attended a ceremony it does not give you the right to conduct a ceremony and say that you know what you are doing.

  40. Nothing will happen to James Ray. The families will sue and settle for an undisclosed amount on the condition that they keep thier mouths shut. Sheep will always be sheep. People will still follow him. He’s been laughing all the way to the bank for years.

  41. And he’s not the only one laughing. Count in ‘psychic’ Sylvia Browne who charges $800 an hr, and others….

    Without a lost, captive audience, these people couldn’t make a buck.

  42. I use to date this freak for about one year. When I introduced him to my family, their collective reaction to him was that of like a dog when the hair stands up on their back.

  43. I agree with the Native Americans.
    This Ray is just another “instant medicine man”. If you want to do a sweat, then go and study with a native spiritual teacher. One, who was chosen by his elders and taught by them to perform these ceremonies.
    You will learn to stay true to yourself. You are told, if you REALLY feel the need to leave then you should leave. There is NO SHAME or JUDGEMENT in these ceremonies.

    The big lesson here is to never GIVE your power away to ANYONE!
    And to charge money is the first clue this ceremony is a sham.

  44. I suspect and predict that this plastic phoney shaman will be acquited due to his social status and wealth.

  45. To Brett and others defending the so-called “law of attraction” as advertised in “the Secret.” There IS a big problem with most of the so-called “new age” movement, as well as anyone connected with the propaganda pushed through “The secret.” James Ray is just an extreme manifestation of a very serious social illness. It is sad that so many are taken in by this stuff, and the saddest thing of all is maybe some of them are really looking for something real, and get caught up in the new age nonsense (which admittedly draws on some very real principles, make no mistake). For those who are really looking there are a few things to look for to see if a Spiritual Tradition is real (using mostly Native American examples, but they could apply to Buddhism or Islam or Christianity or another tradition):

    They don’t demand money as a business, with set “rates” for spiritual ceremonies or rituals (although some participants may sometimes donate time or money or resources of their own accord, and in some authentic churches, a small fee may go to basic upkeep – I think I paid $50 when I was married in the Catholic Church, to cover various administrative costs – but the money sure didn’t go into the priest’s pocket). Any Native Elders I know who are respected in their communities have all had regular day jobs as farmers, counsellors, truck drivers and so on (or were retired after a life of hard work) , and none of them ever made a living from their teachings or ceremonies. Also, the teachers are directly connected with a line or tradition that in turn gives them their teachings and direction after an intensive apprenticeship (in this case, for example, a Native Elder who has practiced the ceremonies and apprenticed in his turn, and was told or given permission to conduct specific ceremonies). No one should just attend ceremonies or read books and then decide to go out and hang up their own shingle, no matter how smart or charismatic they are. Finally, the true traditional teachings all give us guidance to be applied OVER A LIFETIME, if we are truly committed, to help us fight against our negative qualities, such as our greed, self-pity, and overall EGO. They never, ever pump us up and tell us we can be spiritually awakened in a weekend, or that we somehow have a right to be rich or realize our worldly dreams. Any spiritual Native Elders I have known tend to not have a lot of money, and have always been humble. It’s a lifetime commitment and can be a difficult life. If someone calls a true Pipe carrier in the middle of the night and asks in the proper way (not with money) for a ceremony of some kind, they get up and go, even if the people they are helping are poor and the Elder has to get up and work in the morning. I never heard any Elders talk about their own “enlightenment” or make widely advertised claims to “special knowledge” or played on people’s insecurities about their lack of success.

    ANY encounters i’ve ever had with any of the “new age” people break all these basic requirements. Just look at all the so-called “spiritual teachers” advertising at the Sedona retreat web site for great examples of the wrong way to go. They are all people who have stolen from various traditions and are making money playing on people’s egos and insecurity. Be careful out there.

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